Gita: A Mantra for Success
Gita: A Mantra for Success
Episode 9: Bhakti Yoga_Chapter 7-12
In this episode, we are talking about Bhakti Yoga. Bhakti Yoga is a difficult concept for both of us as we do not follow the traditional idea of Bhakti. But we did rigorous research about Bhakti Yoga, read how ancient philosophers interpreted them. Again, at no point, will we be saying, "Hare Rama Hare Krishna or that Krishna is the ONLY TRUTH. There is no other God bigger than him or anything along those lines."
Instead, we will provide the historical significance of the concept of Bhakti in Hinduism, how it started, what influenced the idea, and why the Bhagavad Gita chose such a drastic turn from philosophies of karma yoga, Gyana yoga and Dhyana yoga to Bhakti yoga.
If our stand makes you uncomfortable, we apologize beforehand. Our goal is not to offend anyone. We want to be very open-minded and transparent about how we are approaching the concept of Bhakti and how we understand it and this is our interpretation of it.
- What is Bhakti Yoga? How does Krishna insert the idea of Bhakti?
- What does surrendering mean? We give an example of when Krishna saves Draupadi during attempted Cheerharan incident in Mahabharat
- The link between Universe or Brahman in Upanishad and Krishna himself
- The historical significance of the Bhakti movement in India, and how the modern concept of Bhakti is influenced by Sufism.
- Influence of Mahaprabhu Chaitanya and Meerabai on Bhakti Movement
- Bonus: The story of a dog and the priest to understand the true essence of Bhakti or devotion
- And our conclusion of how Bhakti has different forms.
Vee 00:04
Hello, everybody, welcome to our podcast, Gita, a mantra for success.
Vee 00:13
So today in this podcast, we're going to talk about the Bhakti Yoga and we did some rigorous research about Bhakti Yoga. We read how ancient philosophers actually interpreted them. We will provide historical significance of the concept of Bhakti in Hinduism and why the Bhagavad Gita suddenly chose to take a different turn. We understand that our stands here and our interpretation might make some people uncomfortable. We apologize beforehand. That is not the goal. We just want to be open-minded and transparent and give our understanding of Bhakti Yoga.
Dee 00:48
Also, I think it is fair to talk about our background, our upbringing and our understanding of Bhakti
Vee 00:55
It makes sense. Let's start. Let me start. I was born in Chennai, India to a Tamil Brahmin - actually in an Iyer family. My ancestors followed Advaita philosophy which was advocated by Adi Shankaracharya. His philosophical thesis was that self-realization is the awareness of the self and the universal. This prompted the idea of something called Aham Brahmasmi, which basically means I am Brahman. This is not the Brahmin we're thinking about, not the caste Brahmin. Actually it means the universe is within me, okay. And you know, I should be devoted to find that within me, right? So, this is a concept that has influenced my understanding. And I read the Gita even with this kind of understanding, and that makes rational sense to me.
Dee 01:43
Okay. And I grew up in Kathmandu, Nepal. Pashupati or Lord Shiva has a significant influence on my life. In fact, I grew up in a culture, at least in my inner circle, my relatives were not comfortable if you implied Krishna or any other God is bigger, bigger than Shiva.
I just want to inform the audience that it is against our principle to claim that one particular God is bigger than the other. Personally, even though I've spent years reading the Bhagavad Gita and I teach Gita, I never tell my students that they must think Krishna, or any other God is the only truth. That's where I stand.
Vee 02:22
Makes sense. Makes sense. Anyway, having said that, let's start talking about the part of Bhakti that is described or discussed in the Bhagavad Gita. How do you want to start?
Dee 02:31
Well, remember in the previous episode, we spoke about meditation or Dyana Yoga, right? Right. But here Arjuna says, my mind is too restless and too unsteady. I cannot comprehend anything about the state of this mystic peace that you're talking about.
Vee 02:47
Hmm, that makes sense. I mean, I think this was too much for Arjuna that my interpretation here is - it sounds like Arjuna is looking for excuses.
Dee 02:55
Excuses not to fight?
Vee 02:56
Yes! He does not want or he doesn't have the will to take the responsibility to move on and you know, take action. So after all these chapters, Krishna is maybe thinking okay, I've tried everything to reason with this guy. Now it's time for me to step up and be the boss and basically the god - the boss and say an order him and say, because you're not listening to yourself or to reason, I'm the god. Listen to me,
Dee 03:24
But I think Bhagavad Gita is more descriptive about the concept of Bhakti. Now it prescribes Gyana Yoga which is knowledge, Karma Yoga action and Bhakti Yoga which is devotion as these three essential features for self-enlightenment.
Right.
So I think that's ..that's how it is. Now let's understand how Krishna inserts the idea of Bhakti in Bhagavad Gita.
Clearly, as you said, first, someone has to be God, right. So he starts talking about his own divine presence. It begins with him saying he's present everywhere. Then he goes one step ahead and he says “beyond this, I have another higher nature and it supports the whole universe and is the source of life in all beings. I am the source,” you know,
Vee 04:11
okay. So he's basically speaking about the universe, the Brahman or Brahmanda. So he's saying, I am Brahmanda
Dee 04:18
So in these three chapters 7-8-9, Krishna goes in detail explaining the grander of this universe okay? And he is the universe. He is present everywhere, but no one can see him.
Now he introduces the concept of surrendering and the best way to understand the concept of surrender from Bhagavad Gita context is through the story of Draupadi..Draupadi Cheerharan episode.
Vee 04:47
Okay
Dee 04:47
In Mahabharat, after the game of dice, Draupadi is brought in the court, right and now Duryodhana - we spoke about Duryodhana in episode two.
He orders that Draupadi be disrobed in front of all the elders.
Vee 05:00
Right
Dee 05:00
Draupadi tries her best to save herself
Vee05:02
makes sense
Dee 05:03
She argues, she debates. Now remember at that point when Draupadi holds up her saree, and she prays to Krishna, and it is the only way when she lets go entirely, and she raises her both hands and says, Krishna, Hey Govinda, save me. I tried all I could now save me and that is an example of surrendering.
So only then Krishna comes. Why? Why didn't Krishna come earlier because see surrenders herself completely. See now accepts she has no power to save herself and only Krishna can save her, and that is how it is being interpreted.
Vee 05:49
Also, the more I understand the concept of surrendering, the more I'm convinced that it is very monotheistic in nature, right.
Almost look like This was influenced by Christianity or Islam monotheistic theology. And as you mentioned, the concept of Bhakti itself is not very new. But the Bhakti moment in the context of socio religious background has different connotations.
Dee 06:17
Okay.
Vee 06:18
Right. And it has to do with some social anomalies in the Hindu society, you know, like, the caste system was pretty rigid, right?
Dee 06:25
of course
Vee 06:27
There were some rituals, which were kind of irrelevant. There were a lot of religious practices for the sake of having practices. And the religion itself was kind of monopolized by the Brahmins, in this case, the caste and upper caste people who led a very powerful and corrupt life, right, so only the kings and the powerful people and the upper caste people were allowed to go to temples and also don't forget, women were not allowed.
Dee 06:53
Really?
Vee 06:53
Yes. Now when Islam started becoming prominent in India, let's say around the 13th century, Hindu started noticing its individual characteristics like Universal brotherhood, absence of any caste system, there was no untouchability. Yeah. And they were opposed to idol worship, and above all they had. They practice monotheism or oneness of God just like Christianity right?
Among all these monotheism or equality of all men appealed a lot to Hindus specially the Sudras were under lower rank of the caste system. Who were the worse sufferers and they had no religious freedom and they pretty much had to follow what others told them to.
So, this new form of Hinduism started becoming prominent - Hinduism 2.2, right?.
(laughs)
So the Bhakti moment aimed at the liberation of people from the monopoly or injustices of the Brahman or the priestly classes, okay, right? That explains why the Bhagavad Gita’s Bhakti Yoga part is so monotheistic in nature, right?
Dee 07:51
You know, you made me think of two individuals who have a huge influence on the Bhakti movement in India, and especially even in the West. Okay
One is Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and the other is Meerabai, okay.
Now Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, he is known as Lord Chaitanya in the West. He was born in 1486 in India, and he made the mode of worshipping Krishna with this super, you know, joyous songs and dance very popular.
Vee 08:21
Yeah, but again 1486.. we're talking maybe 500 years or so.
Dee 08:24
yeah. And Meerabai, who was born in 1498
Vee 08:29
Yeah, around the same time.
Dee 08:30
Ya - same time. She was a Rajput woman, and she was a Hindu mystic poet. And she wrote these hundreds of devotional poems in passionate praise of Krishna. They played a huge role in the Bhakti movement and especially this idea of singing and dancing and you know, enjoying in the name of Krishna. Interestingly, obviously, both of them came from the same era when India was ruled by the Moguls and with the rise of Muslim power Sufism was also on the rise.
Vee 09:01
Yes. Which kind of makes sense because there is an influence of Sufism in the origin of Bhakti moment about the same time. Sufism had a lot of singing. Yeah, and you know – monotheistic again.
So anyway, it almost sounded like whatever, you know, Buddha did. He went through so much pain, right?
Dee 09:18
Yeah
Vee 09:19
He almost died. He had to leave his house, his wife, his son, he had to meditate for a long period of time. Yeah.
And after doing all those things, in years later as he was teaching, then he became Buddha on his own.
Dee 09:33
Yeah
Vee 09:33
Right? So here, Krishna is basically saying, let's be real, not everybody can do what Buddha did. That will be special. You're not going to go renounce yourself, go to the jungle. You're not going to give up your responsibilities. You gonna be part of the society. But do not worry. Stay here. Do your job, do your Dharma do your duties. And I will take care of the Enlightenment as a Gift of Grace.
Dee 09:55
Exactly. Exactly.
Vee 09:56
People wanted a simple way to worship. They were like give me these five points of what I have to do in my life. Don't give me all this stuff that I don't understand.
Dee 10:05
Actually Arjuna says something similar to that. I'm not joking.
Vee 10:09
See.. this is not a small blog like saying - five things you have to do to be happy.
Dee 10:15
No, no, no (laughs).
Vee 10:16
Right? So the paths of Gyana Yoga, or Karma Yoga are not easy. So the alternative for that is Bhakti Yoga. It's a simple way of devotion to get salvation from worldly life.
Dee 10:25
Yeah. But again, if you read Upanishad and Gita, there is a clear link
okay?
It's not like “I cannot be Karma Yogi I cannot be Gyana Yogi. You know what, let me just start with Hari Rama Hari Krishna and Krishna will come and …
Vee 10:37
save me?
Dee 10:37
save me.” It's not that easy.
Vee 10:40
Okay, good good
Dee 10:40
But the crucial distinction is that Krishna defines himself as a personal God. Right. And he's just adopted the guise of the …this theological status of a Brahman as revealed in open Upanishads
Vee 10:52
right. So basically, again, like we just mentioned, I think he's trying to simplify the concept of what is discussed in let's say, the Sankhya Yoga, the Upanishads, and Vedas so that Arjuna can actually break it down and understand
Dee 11:04
exactly. So now I will give you a very simple example. In chapter six, he speaks about meditation right now. Arjuna he doesn't understand he doesn't get it. So now he is making it simple for him. You know, he says, You know what? I am God. Now set your mind on me and concentrate and Arjuna is like, oh, wow, I understand this.
Vee 11:23
Let's speak about Krishna’s Universal Form.
Dee 11:27
So you know, Arjuna is convinced that Krishna is God.
Vee 11:31
Okay? So he got there now?
Dee 11:32
Oh, yeah, this is the first time when Arjuna was actually convinced. Otherwise, he just has so many questions. But he asked if Krishna can show him how he looks. And Krishna agrees. Now in the Bhagavad Gita, we get a description of Krishna’s universal form from Sanjay. You remember Sanjay right?
Vee 11:47
Of course, I remember him. He can also actually see Krishna because he's the one narrating everything
Dee 11:50
exactly. Uh huh.
So now Arjuna is absolutely terrified seeing this universal form. You know, not every average human can take something so awesomely powerful. And he asked, Who are you and Krishna in that universal form says I am time.
Vee 12:08
Of course, of course. Main Samay Huh. That's one of another famous dialogue from the Mahabharat. Yeah, go on.
Dee 12:14
Yeah. And so I guess like, nothing is more powerful than Time.
Time has seen everything. It has seen the beginning and it is going to see …see the end as well. Right.
Vee 12:26
Okay, so now..Krishna here has become Stephen Hawking. He's talking about time. I guess he did not go into the theory of relativity, which is fine.
Anyway, I don't want to get sidetracked. Yes, he basically shows his roop. And when he asked ..when he's asked who he is, he says, I'm time
Dee 12:42
So.. but.. and also he inserts this idea of God's Will here. He's saying whatever happens in your life, it is my will. Without my will. Nothing is possible. If
Vee 12:53
Yeah, and that's, that's there's a problem there because if that's the case, then why am I fighting? He (Bhaisma) is gonna die anyway, let him die. You gave this whole speech because you want me to fight and now you're saying everything is your will. Make up your mind be consistent. That's the problem anyway.,
Dee 13:08
Well, well, I believe that when people are struggling, I've seen people saying it's God's will. And I'll accept it. Now they have hope that's
Vee 13:17
the positive,
Dee 13:18
positive, they don't give up. And now that's empowering
Vee 12:22
That is good.
Dee 12:23
But I've also seen people not doing anything and saying, oh, God's will
Vee 13:26
That is negativity. See, Krishna says, you have to be righteous. It's not like you can kill people or harm people and then say, it's God's will. You can't like cheat and rob and then say, it's God's will. Right. But again, like you said, this concept is a little prone to misinterpretation, and it is a little tough for me to comprehend.
Because if everything it's God's will, and it has been predetermined, then why bother with Bhakti in the first place? Right?
So if you're saying there's no free will, then everything he said in the first six chapters that you should do this about Karma and not expecting.. all that.. this there's a lack of consistency here.
Anyway go on.
Dee 14:03
So now Krishna is in this universal form, but Arjuna wants to get back to normal.
Vee 14:09
Okay
Dee 14:10
So he asked Krishna
“Okay now I know you are God, how can we be friends? We were friends before and it was a great relationship. Now I'm scared of you because you are God. How can we mortals love someone so massively powerful and inspiring?
He has another problem like – we were friends before - now you are God. Oh my God.
Vee 14:33
Okay
Dee 14:33
So now Krishna is like,” you know Arjuna I don't want you to remember me as this super powerful universe.”
You know, that's why we have Krishna Leela, which is so beautiful. You know, we know Krishna as this naughty kid who stole butter..
Vee 14:48
got into trouble
Dee 14:53
Got into trouble. He is so cute. Then Krishna as an adult who killed Kansa. Krishna as Sudhama’s friend or Radha's boyfriend. So all these ordinary things that we humans can digest.
Vee 15:07
Yes, it is relatable.
Dee 15:09
Yeah, he's relatable and that's how Krishna wants us to remember him. And there's another story when Krishna was very young, his mother Yasodhara actually saw the universe inside his mouth
Vee 15:21
Right. I have seen it
Dee 15:22
And she faints because again, she cannot take it. But when she wakes up, she forgets everything. Because again, Krishna doesn't want to lose that love
Vee: 12:29
He wants to be normal
Dee 12:30
He wants to be normal. And that is what Krishna wants His devotee to think of him. Because Krishna wants them to love him, not fear him. So at no point in Gita, Krishna says “if you don't believe I'm God, nasty things will happen to you.”
Vee 15:45
That is.. that is.. that is..he has always stayed on the positive.
Dee 15:48
That is there ..he has always stayed on the positive side. He's like, whatever. If you want to think I am God, that is fine. If not, that is also fine. It's just that I love my devotees and I speak to them directly
Vee 16:01
Well kinda make sense. So basically you know Krishna is a big celebrity ..he has huge fans ..you can say like on Instagram or he's a ..you know with a lot of followers in real life and he's an engaging celebrity
Dee 16:14
He is a very engaging celebrity
Vee 16:16
Right? He does live shows, he speaks with his followers and that's all good.
So this reminds me actually in the movie Oh My God, Akshay Kumar, who is Krishna, speaks to Paresh Rawal and tells him the same thing in the hospital. He says, “Don't fear Me - Me as God. I am not your father but I'm your friend.
Yeah
People fear me because they misunderstand me but I'm actually everybody's friend.
Dee 16:36
Yeah, yeah. And instead, he's saying hey, Come sing dance, you know dance with me Love me love everybody.
Vee 16:42
Interesting. Anyway, does Arjuna basically ask which is the superior path
Dee 16:46
he asked which one is easier path?
Vee 16:50
okay okay
Dee 16:50
And Krishna says the path of Bhakti is the easiest, you know? He openly says that. He is so transparent you. Like you know, people have to go through a lot of problematic paths. Yoga is difficult, but here I'm asking you to sing kirtan, meet like-minded people. You know, they're easy things
Vee 17:07
just pray and ... Yeah.
Dee 17:08
But again, here, here's the deal. Krishna is telling “my devotees are also detached to the world like karma yogi, right? They have regulated exercise like meditation,”
That is his idol devotee ..
Vee 17:22
That’s how he sees his devotees should be
Dee 17:24
should be right? There are a lot of Krishna Bhakts who are Sanyas..Sanyasis .. Prabhu Chaitanya was a Sanyasi. Meerabai was a Sanyasi
Vee 17:32
So they follow all three. They are Karma Yogis, they also do Dhyana Yoga and meditation and they also have Bhakti
Dee 17:38
Bhakti Yoga, but in the name of Krishna, that's only different right. So let me just summarize this episode today.
As per Krishna, the Krishna devotees and Yogi's they are almost identical,
Vee 17:50
very similar, right.
Dee 17:52
They are detached from the world. No hankering or hating. You know, it could be a yogi or a devotee. The only difference is Krishna, the god. He's saying, I have my arms open for everyone. It is just that my devotees are Priya to me. Priya means Beloved
Vee 18:10
Right
Dee 18:11
You know .. I just love them too much and I will do anything for them as an act of grace. So I guess that is his way of thanking His devotees. So finally, God Bhagavad Gita is quite different from Brahman from Upanishad. Brahman from Upanishad is not a loving power.. it is just a powerful entity.
But Krishna is a very loving deity.
Vee 18:34
Yeah, that's why he wants you to be a friend. Okay. Anyway, that makes sense. You made me think. So basically, what I see is if you see Krishna as you know, Atman or the universe, whatever he's saying kind of makes sense.
He speaks about loving him, which is pretty much loving yourself, which will be the first part of Bhakti. Now if you see Krishna as the universe, so it's part of everyone and it also means loving everybody and respecting them, which is the second part of Bhakti.
It starts with yourself. And then it goes to everybody, right?
Anyway, I forgot something. You had a story about the dog and a priest and it was a great story and that actually involve Bhakti so maybe you should
Dee 19:14
Oh yeah..Yeah, yeah
So my father narrated this story when I was a child to explain what Bhakti meant
Vee 19:22
Right right
Dee 19:23
So in Nepal, as I said earlier, Shiva is ...is the Lord, Shiva is also very generous to His devotees. So there was a priest and a dog and every day this priest crossed the bridge, climbed up the hills, and offered milk to the Shiva… Shiva Linga.
Vee 19:39
Right
Dee 19:40
And the dog followed the priest and you know the dog did not have anything to offer so he peed on this Linga.
So this went on for years, the ..the priests offered milk and dog just peed on the same Linga
Vee 19:53
Okay, .. every day?
Dee 19:54
Consistently. But one season ..one year.. there was a big storm. It was dangerous to cross that bridge or climbed up the hills, you know.
So the priest did not go, but the dog went and peed anyway, during the storm.
Vee 20:08
He was so committed and devoted.
Dee 20:10
So he was so devoted to Shiva that it did not matter how the weather was. So Shiva appears in front of this dog, and he is so happy with his devotion. And he asked the dog what he wants, and our dog is clueless. He's like, I don't know what I want. I just was doing what I was doing. But Shiva was like, but you still did. You are so consistent. So that makes you My devotee. Shiva says, You know what, let me make you the gatekeeper of Yama, the god of death.
And people, Nepali people will worship you once a year.
So if you Google it, only in Nepal, I haven't seen this in India, I might be wrong. We have a dog day Kukur Puja. And this is right before Diwali. And on Kukar puja, we actually worship dogs.
Vee 20:54
Very nice.
Dee 20:55
Yeah. And now that is the gift of grace. And in this context, devotion means selfless act. It is a selfless act with so much consistency, without any expectation. Even an act of peeing can be rewarding, you know because he was devoted
Vee 21:14
make sense. Yeah, I've heard this story many times. So that's why I remember.. I thought you should say yeah, and that is devotion. And that is Bhakti. Again, Bhakti has different forms. There's no right or wrong answer. As I said, in the starting of the podcast, this is a tough topic for both of us.
But having said that, what we would like to leave you with is believe what you believe. And don't judge people for their beliefs and treat everyone with respect. That's pretty simple.
And yeah, we are going to conclude this episode here. In the next episode, we will speak about and combine the last few chapters of the Bhagavad Gita and actually summarize the entire Gita. Thank you very much.